10/5/04
Since people like talking about these debates the day after (and I want to hear what you think as well), then I'll go ahead and give another post-mortem to a debate that was definitely "mortem" in the "fun" department.
Give credit where credit is due: Cheney is no Bush. Cheney clearly knew answers to all the questions, even if 57% percent of it was a pack of lies. I found it excruciatingly difficult to believe that the two men had never met, and later on, it was proven they had. That was a major fuckup, seeing as they co-chaired a "prayer meeting," which could make Cheney look like more of a mean guy than he already is.
But Dick landed a few good jabs to the face, and performed about as well as an arteriosclerotic bag of gelatinous bones can be expected to. Edwards kicked him in the nuts several times, but the problem is Cheney's scowl makes it looks like his nuts have been pre-kicked for you.
I don't think Edwards won this debate; simple reminders about this administration's miserable record did, and Edwards happened to be the conduit. This is going to be a problem for the Republicans, as they can't run far enough away from the steaming pile of shit they left on America's living room rug.
I'm not getting cocky about the next two face-offs - Bush could easily look good due to the insanely low bar now set for him - but frankly, I'm surprised his people agreed to three debates. Clinton only had one in 1996, when he was running for re-election. In retrospect, that would have been a bad decision for Bush, who was clearly smoked in the last debate, and thus would have no redemption. But if he falters against Kerry again, it's going to be very bad for them. They might have to cut bait.
In the end, the impression I saw was Cheney as an angry old man who might have had enough with "dominating the world." I think the last four years have taken a toll on both him and Bush; both would never admit this, but some part of their subconscious wants out of this shit entirely.
Edwards, in his final shot, was shown beaming, holding his two toddlers in each arm. Pundits and online polls may be blowing angel's breath up Edwards' ass, but I do agree the sunny side of the street is where 51% of voters want to be standing.
Posted by irw at October 5, 2004 11:44 PMYour use of "cut bait" is different than I am used to. In the Maritimes it would be part of "fish or cut bait" and would be a scold someone would say to an idle person but its real meaning is telling someone to make the decision to do something. A great PEI variant is "shit or wind your watch".
Dick Cheney bowed his head
Because he knew that he'd been beat
And he laid the keys to the White House
On the ground at Johnny's feet.
His soul looked like a miner's lung, his hairline was receding
His heart so small, it needed a machine to keep it beating.He looked like Mr. Potter from that old Frank Capra flick
And all the country marveled at George Bush's flaccid Dick.
Johnny said, "Cheney, just come on back
If you ever want to try again.
I done told you once, you evil man
I'm the best that's ever been."(with apologies to Charlie Daniels)
I went to bed incredibly depressed. I think Edwards came off incredibly shallow and I wonder what Kerry saw in him to choose him as his running mate. Cheney carried himself like a leader and inspired confidence. I hate what this administration has done and what I fear they will do, but if Edwards were at the top of the ticket I wouldn't vote for him. For the first time in about 6 months I actually began to reconsider whether or not to vote for Kerry - I thought it was THAT bad.
as i understand it, the bush campaign consented to more debates in exchange for greater control over the debate structure. for instance, it was their choice to have last night's debate done with the candidates seated, which is a less creepy presentation for cheney and reportedly a handicap for edwards, who is more comfortable on his feet.
i thought cheney did well last night, as he did 4 years ago. i was underwhelmed by edwards and relieved that he was generally considered the winner. i think this speaks mostly to the loss of credibility for this administration. when both guys keep saying, "the other guy's lying," it eventually comes down to a question of whose word means more right now.
in short, i think cheney argued more effectively for a position that is no longer tenable to most people.
Jordana mostly nailed it I think. Edwards did NC proud and only miscalculated in not having his energetic young son do a surprise piggyback leap onto Dick Cheney's unsuspecting and likely bad back. That grandpa hasn't been the base in a chickenfight in a while and he probably doesn't roughhouse with the young'uns the way Johnny-boy does. He'd have toppled right over.
By the way Piglet, let's you and me team up and usurp Mark Russell on the PBS song parody front. We'd have 'em rolling in the aisles. Brilliant.
I'm releived to say that I feel better about the debate after reading 'round the blogoshere a bit. I'm glad the rest of the world didn't agree with my initial assessment :)
Greg, I'm not sure whether we saw the same debate, or what you were thinking...Not only do I think Edwards dominated, but even if he'd made a complete Quayle of himself, why on earth would you suddenly vote to retain Scrappy Doo and the war party just because of that?
"And a band of pundits joined in
And it sounded something like this:
Wahh, Wahh, Wahh, Wahh, Wahh, Wahh, Wahh-Wahh..."Cullen, do you compose? I can write tolerable lyrics, but I've lacked someone to be Lowe to my Lerner and so my musical output has been limited to doing the "Weird Al" thing with pre-existing tunes. Thank you for your kind words.
Piglet,
I never entertained voting for the idiot currently in office, I just question(ed?) whether Edwards would be significantly less of an idiot. Intelligence aside, Edwards is at least aligned with personnel that would guide him in a direction that is better for America than the current administration, so he would still be a better choice, just not an easy one. Kerry is an easy choice. He speaks and acts like a leader - an elitist, but a leader.
I think it sucks that Kerry is going to get my vote NOT because I think he's the best guy for the job, but because I don't want Bush in there for another four years. That sucks. I should be voting for someone whom I think can rock the casbah. I should be wanting to pass out flyers and hand out buttons. I should be wanting to debate my fellow citizens and convince them that my guy is the MAN. (Hell, I would really be on cloud 9 if I were trying to convince someone that my GAL is the WOMAN, but I'm afraid that's still quite a few years down the road.) I'm not voting for Kerry, I'm voting against Bush.
Dammit.
Bartlett for President in 2008!
p.s. Do you think our forefathers had the same problem and to this extent? Doesn't it seem strange that people would not be excited to have Thomas Jefferson or Abe Lincoln or John Adams on the ballot? I guess hindsight is 20/20, but still...
A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage???? Are you KIDDING ME???