12/3/06
I'd like to add an addendum to yesterday's entry, something brought up by many commenters: my lack of R&B appreciation. If you look at the list, there are several song/artists that I loved, including Kurtis Blow, Sade, Prince, and "Jungle Love." However, it is no secret that my tastes have always run toward the high-harmony white-as-alabaster Brit pop and proto-Emo shoegazing. Sean loves to make fun of my tastes, as if he is some paragon of lick-you-all-over rhythm and blues, but he's essentially correct.
I look at the list from 1985 knowing who I was at the time. In short, I was a pent-up, frustrated, emotionally-stunted prep school boy wearing a tie, corduroys and Velcro tennis shoes. I had bad acne, huge glasses, and was many, many moons away from ever touching the breasts of a girl. My appreciation for music was filtered through my dad's orchestra, where I'd been weaned on Mahler, Elgar, the Brandenburg Symphonies, "Carnival of the Animals" and Shostakovich's 5th. Until 1985, there had been some serious talk of me being a professional violinist, sitting in the second violin section of some metropolitan orchestra.
In short, there weren't a lot of chances for UTFO or Kool Moe Dee to slip onto my radar. The huge education I got in that sort of music was my summer washing dishes in the back of Courtney's Restaurant in Norfolk, where the local homeboys taught me how to smoke a joint, and degreased my rubber mats in exchange for a ride back into the hood.
Even so, I was allowed to have an opinion. One of those guys kept playing the Mary Jane Girls' album, which had a sound that was mysterious and sexy. Yesterday, because Jon G. objected so vociferously, I downloaded "Roxanne, Roxanne" for a fresh listen, and I have to say it doesn't hold a candle to "In My House." Some of that stuff hits you in your hindbrain, and some misses you completely.
But the fact remains: I have very few African-American artists on my iPod. By and large, the groups and solo artists that make up the original landscape of rock & roll just never gave me goosebumps. I've always appreciated them intellectually, and been unspeakably thankful that black musicians gave rise to the Beatles and almost everything else, but R&B - and, for that matter, 99% of hip-hop - says absolutely nothing to me.
My question is this: can one's tastes make one a racist?
It shouldn't make you racist any more than a lack of Japanese pop or Australian aboriginal folk music or that nice Bulgarian folk choir stuff.
That being said, does it not speak to a lack of exploration? I know it does not help your rhetorical thesis at all from the racism point of view, but I was only turned on to bluegrass through weekly listening to one show on our local NPR station and, whammo, now I have a mandolin and a banjo. Ought you not just make a study of the thing you feel you know little about?
Ian, I guarantee when your cutie-pie Lucy hits her teen years, you will find your musical tastes diversifying.
My kids are now 20, 16, and 14. Over the past 8 years I have found myself listening to all kinds of pop music (rap, hip-hop, etc.) that I never would have bothered with otherwise. Because my kids download it from iTunes and pop their CDs in my car stereo, play it on their MySpaces, etc., I gain exposure and, sometimes, appreciation for different genres.
No, it doesn't.
And your entry wasn't meant to describe your potential for exploration, merely what you enjoyed listening to in 1985.
Watching 'Friends' makes you a racist.
I don't think it means you are a racist. No one is calling Jay-Z a racist because he doesn't make records that sound like Erasure or The The. The fact that you have lilly-white musical tastes simply confirms that you are a white guy. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Having said that, I would be a little suprised if you (a musician) didn't have some jazz in his or her iPod. No Charlie Parker or Miles Davis? No Dizzy, Duke or Herbie Hancock?I notice that a lot of us educated white guys are down with the jazz.
I read this entry and thought "nah", then reflected on it a bit more and thought "nah".
If someone didn't like music performed by a different race because of the race, that would be another thing.
I've often wondered if there is any kind of genetic memory that helps determine our predilection towards a certain music. Was there something coded into my Scottish genes that made me darn near weep the first time I hear the bagpipes? I know for others it can sound like mass executions with a hatchet on a farm, but I love it and always have.
In the more modern world of music, I like guitars - acoustic, electric, loud or soft, I just love that sounds. Now I can't argue that a Gibson cranked up to eleven through a Marshall stack could in any way be genetic, the sound hits home for me.
As a result, most rap, much like most electronic music, misses the mark for me. There is plenty of hip-hop that I like and own and Parliament is almost always somewhere in my musical rotation, but the commonality is the guitar.
My abject hatred of Steely Dan, continues on, unfettered, and always shall.
(I really don't want to do my work today...)
furthermore, I think Prince is a great example. Here's a guy that I think is as brilliant a person the arts world has seen in 30 years or so, I just don't usually care for the end result. There are several of his songs that have been covered and I love the covers - not because the band that covered it was white, but because of the push of the guitar in the cover.
There are several Prince tracks I do like, but those are mainly the ones that weren't caught up in the trappings of the elements required for a pop hit. And while I think he's a remarkable composer, the most impressive performance I've seen of his was his blistering lead guitar work during 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' at the George Harrison Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction - if you haven't seen it, google it to find the video - simply amazing, and this coming from someone who, while I love the sound of the guitar, has a strong distaste for guitar solos.
Likewise, I've been duly impressed by the production work through the years of Prince's protoges, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. I can appreciate what they've done, even if I don't generally care for the song itself.
Part of it, I think is the learning curve. Around 1988, Glenn Boothe the music director at WXYC forced us dj's to play rap. Prior to that time, I could make a blanket statement that I don't like rap. And while I resisted Glenn's urging us to pay attention to these records at first, eventually I not only became able to distinguish what rap I didn't like from what I did, but I also learned to hear the elements that made up the different styles.
I'd also applaud CL's statement about 'Friends'
i think someone made the point earlier that while one's musical tastes can't make someone racist, one's musical tastes, particularly what he or she excludes from his tastes, can perhaps reflect racist attitudes. having said that, i'd like to ask what people out there think does make one racist?
No, it doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're missing out on a lot of good shit.
Helen is totally into Kidz Bop. Anyone else had this pleasure? It has actually grown on me. You gotta love a group of kids covering Kelly Clarkson and Green Day songs!
No, you are not a racist -- just a product of your environment. As for me, I love Public Enemy. I listen to the old stuff on my Shuffle at work and during my commute. Remember the scene with Ron Livingston in "Office Space" - where he is stuck in traffic, listening to rap? That's me. One of my favorite movie scenes of all time is when the 3 co-workers smash the dreaded fax machine in the empty field with a bat, with rap blaring in the background. That is My Dream.
'Cause I'm black and I'm proud and I'm ready
and I'm hyped for some amp!
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamp!. . .
Fight the Power!Yeah, that's me. LFMD the soccer mom, Hyped for Some Amp in my cube at the Insurance Job. Just like Flava Flav probably envisioned when he wrote that song in 1989!
Not a racist.
I'm just impressed you have Shostakovich on your playlist. I thought that was a made up name when I first saw the movie, About Last Night, and Liz Perkin's character lambasts Rob Lowe's character after he misprounounces it when trying to help move Demi Moore out. Funny scene. Now I'm curious to see what his music sounds like.
You never have to defend your musical tastes. The only thing is that you might be missing some good stuff if you never think to give it a listen.
I, on the other hand love Steely Dan and as we established I am the only one in America not named Grace Slick who likes "We Built This City." And before DFB's & T's tries to out me to this crowd, it's true that I own the 1990 album by Wilson Phillips. And I also have Milli Vanilli on tape . . . and CD.
I love FRIENDS but may not be much of a "Kramer" fan now, though the rest of Seinfeld is funny.
not a racist in the slightest.
you like what you like.
and if you're raised on certain sounds, that is what it is.
what i'd like to know is, for every person like yourself that goes from totally white-bread music to an appreciation of Mary jane Girls, is there an inner city black kid who goes from UFTO to, say, a Fleetwood Mac appreciation?
To answer Jason Savage, I would say yes, the RB segment looks toward the rock world for inspiration and collaboration and sampling.
Ever listen to PM DAWN's sampling of the Spandau Ballet song, True? Or Tupac's sampling of Bruce Hornsby? Or the song by (I want to say Public Enemy) sampling Buffalo Springfield from the movie, "He Got Game."
I'd say that most mainstream musicians are aware of what's on the other side of the music aisle. Hell, check out a recent Santana album and it's like a United Colors of Bennetton ad of musical tastes and artists.
Even hard rock, guitar playing purists like Aerosmith dabbled in crossover hip hop with Run DMC back in the mid 80's, allowing their hit to be sampled and even lampooning themselves in the video for WALK THIS WAY.
As I recall, even the venerable Boss allowed 2 Live Crew to sample his Born in the USA.
Check the research on what demographic in our society buys the most hip hop. I'll give you a hint . . . they live in the suburbs and they look a lot like Ian.
But, once again, finding a playlist on one's iPod that includes nothing but Air Supply and James Taylor does not make one a racist.
great examples, GFWD.
I'd be curious to know how much of that sampling (Tupac sampling Horsny, for instance)is the artist's idea or the producer's idea. I think the best producers create an amazing exhange of stuff.
also, i still wonder if on the street level (kids who listen for fun, and not people who do it for aliving) you would find an inner city black kid listening to Bruce Hornsby. I wonder if the mirror image of the white suburban kid listening to rap exists.
I don't think your tastes make you a racist but you might be surprised what some of your favorite musicians listen to and how that can change your course. I grew up listening to my mom's old Beatles records alongside my dad's old R&B and Motown 45's but I was further influenced by who I was listening to.
For example, The Smiths may on the surface appear to be one of the whitest bands on the planet. I remember reading a book in which Johnny Marr was asked where the inspiration from "How Soon Is Now?" came from. He listed a bunch of sources (CCR, early British pop, Bow Wow Wow) but said the main pulse of the guitar riff came from "Mona' by Bo Diddley. So I went to the library, found the record that had "Mona" on it and checked it out and gained an appreciation for Bo Diddley. Another unlikely source was upon listening to Paul's Boutique with someone from inner-city St. Louis. He knew nearly every sample source and from those samples I learned all about The Meters, Early Commodores, The Emotions, Curtis Mayfield and so on. The Rolling Stones were also quite influential in exposing me to early blues music I never would have been privy to.
So dig out those old articles, I bet Andy Partridge mentions a jazz or blues cat or two the he digs for you to start off with, ditto John Lennon (buy all the originals from his Rock and Roll covers album). When you hear the music they hold so dear, it's easy to get into it. From there it's just a domino effect.
Ken nailed it on the head. If you take the time to figure out who your favorite artists listen to, it's a pleasant slippery slope into new worlds of music. My musical tastes were influenced by Solid Gold and the dawn of MTV with all of their pop (and largely white) music. It was balanced, however, with my parents' R&B stuff I heard at home. For every ZZ TOP and J. Geils video I saw, I heard Isley Brothers, Commodores and Earth Wind and Fire with my folks.
Thus, you'll find both Talking Heads and Teddy Pendergrass on my iPod.
Furthermore, not to race bait this discussion any further, but when it comes to romancing and trying to make the soft sweet moves, R&B has rock beat every day of the week when it comes to superior music. If you want to get an entire stadium to rock in unison, turn to Gary Glitter and the boys or Alan Parsons. If you want to get your schwerve on, it's R&B and soul.
Or, if you want to get pregnant, Reggae.
Finally, Ken, I have to disagree with the low ranking of TINY DANCER at #6. I'll concede that Phoebe Cates deserves the #1 ranking, but that scene in Almost Famous is a close second.
Now, if I can only figure out how to bill my entries today, I'll be happy.
i was in middle school when Roxanne Roxanne came out & Run DMC / UTFO / Eric B. & Rakim were considered to be the dope-est by most posses. including my sad, plaid-pants-wearing posse. the songs were campy & fun & horny - tailor made for a 12 year old. i guess you were 17 when i was 12, ian, so it's no surprise to me that you weren't/aren't interested in that stuff. plus you came from a formal musical BG, and i'd wager that most kids raised in that type of env. aren't all about the rappin'...even though that movie had to happen. anyway, i hereby withdraw my objection to your UTFO-bashing : )
>>I'd also applaud CL's statement about 'Friends'
Haha, thanks, J.A.! I was kidding of course, but talk about lily white shows...
of course not!
Just got back from running errands and was listening to the Charm School CD by Bishop Allen.
Here's a band that if you haven't heard you must - sure they're a couple of clean cut white dudes, but wow, they've got the best pop record in many a year.
My brother in law told me to go see them about a year ago and I did, loved the show, bought the CD and after repeated listening, my wife stole it and it has been in her car - I was only recently able to steal it back.
Great lyrics, amazing melodies and production. Well worth giving out for Christmas or just for yourself. They are doing this EP a month thing on their website and I haven't heard much of that, but I can recommend Charm School to all
www.bishopallen.comNot affiliated in any way, but I thought that some of y'all, especially Ian and Mr Humphries would really get it.
no, but it also doesn't mean you're NOT a racist if you DO.
what makes you and me racist is the fact that we are white living in racist society where we have power and privelege that permeates every aspect of the country's culture. just as people of color are harmed by the ingrained racism, so are we, from the opposite side.
our job is to be vigilent and active in an ongoing process to unlearn the racism we have been and continue to absorb.
so to the extent that a person's taste, in clothes, in activities, in music, and everything else, is a reflection of a ton of influences over his/her entire life, it's highly likely you have a cultural bias, and you articulate your own history pretty clearly.
sometimes taste is a knee-jerk reaction to your cultural influences, sometimes it's deeper. i steadfastly refused to play any southern rock in my last band because i am biased to think of it as redneck hick shtick, no matter how powerful the songs or how strong the musicianship is, i hear it and i can't get the picture of a pickup truck with a confederate flag on it out of my head and i hate it.
noone's really causing anyone harm by simply liking one music vs. another.
but the act of questioning yourself and questioning the way different experiences impact your taste is a really positive exercise to expand your horizons and get a deeper understanding of the other side of the fence. it's kind of about getting out of your comfort zone. you can't change where you came from, but you can grow in different directions.
and if your goal is to get a deeper understanding, then music and other key culture points can definitely help. expanding your cultural knowledge and repertoire goes a long way, it helps you communicate, gives you a different perspective, new information to think about.
I hope I haven't ever made fun of your music, God knows your stuff is what's kept me going over the years. I don't care if there isn't a single black artist on your ipod, I've never heard you poo-poo a piece of music that someone played for you.
The thing is, though I have never had someone with your musical tastes talk shit about my love of Rap or black artists, I *have* had friends who like mostly black artists and Rap describe my love of musical theater as "gay". A friend who asked me to listen to an album by The Roots, (and I recall sitting in his car listening to it for an hour making us extremely late) sat through about forty seconds of a recording I made of "West Side Story" before screaming "this is so fucking gay..."
And it was a recording I was singing on, not just some old cast album...
So, I think the thing that sucks is that anyone's telling you that you're missing out. You aren't. Unless you are sitting there right now saying "God, I just wish I had *more music* in my head"... I wouldn't worry about it.
I like what xuxE said!
yeah, you're a racist, dude.
Interesting question that I have grappled with in the past.
If a person prefers Blondes over Brunettes, that is simply there preference. No harm, No foul. (herein NHNF)
If a person prefers to date skinny people over people of larger proportions, NHNF
If a person prefers people who wear Haute Couture over those of us in blue jeans, again, NHNF.
But if a person simply prefers white skin over other colors of skin are they racist?
Now, I'm talking about personal tastes, not judging a person by the color of their skin. I have dated/slept with people of numerous cultures and ethnicities and yet I find that my preference is for tall, thin white women. Which is not to say I haven't tried, round short mexican girls and beautiful tall thin black girls and everything in between, it is simply my preference. So, in a nutshell, I do not believe preference makes on a racist but it can lead to a dull boring life of never reaching outside one's comfort zone.
pretty much all modern musicians at this point (the ones we're talking about, at least, the ones making music in the west with the access to get it to us) have been influenced by the music of black americans. the creators jazz and the blues and hip-hop, etc, were influenced by spirituals and african music and, and, and. it's in the music. it's about the music. no matter what music you listen to, to some extent it's black. and then a load of black music is white, brown, a few other hues. why is it at all useful to discuss music in these terms? if you love "brothers and sisters" but just can't get "into" the wire, look at that -- you just might be racist. if you love rufus wainwright, don't sweat it. let the music simmer. even if you didn't read the canterbury tales, you've tasted its flavor in everything else you've read (in its literary tradition). it's a rich soup. the carrots now taste a little like onions. NHNF.
Rebecca busts out NHNF!
It makes you white. It might make you Mormon too. But I remain convinced there is a cure. Maybe one way in would be to watch this vintage documentary on the invention of the synthesizer and pay attention to what Bootsy says.