xtcian

Hey kid, put me down for Highlights, Sport, Cracked and Boys Life.

This brings back dreadful memories of selling Girl Scout cookies door to door and collecting for the local Citizens Scholarship program. To this day I have a terrible time asking anyone for money, even for a good cause!

Saveur, huh? Wonder how many other Cedar Rapids families subscribed. ;-)

My elementary school was forced to endure this horror every year. There was always a rumor that some girl at the school ten miles away had sold "The Wall Street Transcript" ($920/yr.) to the only stockbroker in her town, but it was never substantiated. One time a friend of my father's ordered "Stereo Review" from me, and he was so nice about it that I was extra humiliated when the fucking magazine conglomerate that thought up this mess didn't actually deliver the magazine. Yeesh. I hope my school got a lot of dough for turning us all into unwilling capitalist tools.

I peddled raffle tickets, candles, dollar chocolate bars and canned goodies at various times in my schooling.

I don't know if it makes us kindred spirits or whether I'm just a sad case of someone who doesn't know geography . . . but my work office looks like your middle school wall. I have two large maps, one of the world, one of the US and then a smaller GA map. Not having grown up here, like I did in NC, I am constantly trying to figure out where cities are in my current home state.

As for giving money away and never getting rich, I had an interesting money dilemma the other day. My cousin, with whom I have very little contact, came to me needing to borrow nearly a GRAND for back rent due to many complications (all caused by his stupidity). If I don't do it, he'll be evicted as soon as this afternoon. I'm not that close to this cousin, but I am to his mom (because she is a fellow West Wing nut and pulls for the Tar Heels). Bottom line, he promises to pay me back but EVERYONE I talked to said, regarding loaning money to friends and family, assume you won't ever see the money again. I must be naive because I believe he'll pay me back.

I just wanted to gauge whether any of you have been faced with similar dilemmas in the past. I don't know if I'm being the fool or the good guy.

I guess you'll know in a couple of weeks when the deadline to pay me back comes and goes.

I just can't stand that schools still have kids selling stuff so that the school can raise money. I don't think that kids go door to door as much - but their parents bring it in to the office and I always ending up buying something so no one will think I am like that mean old lady. Then I end up with a bunch of stuff that I do not need...What gets me the most is how much of every dollar I spend goes to the school? I susupect only a few pennies. I know some of it goes to for the product itself and probably the biggest portion goes to XYZ company that contracts with schools to raise funds. I would much rather just give $5 to the school rather then spend $50 on misc junk to help make some company more profitable.

My days of selling are hazy at best, I remember selling peanut brittle and nuts at one point. Now my kids are in full force however we just donate thrity dollars and save everyone the headache. Speaking of door to door my 5 year old collected a bunch of "Brain Fruit" painted smiley faces on them and sold them door to door, at the end of the day he made over $5 dollars which then went towards a hampster. Ah Capitalism!

I've never had luck loaning money even to close family, let alone distant family. It never, ever comes back and you are either horribly uncomfortable when you see them or a target for future largesse. I hope things are different for you.

Do kids still have to sell stuff to raise money in this day and age? I remember getting my dad to buy $20 worth of stuff so I could get a Garfield wipe/off memo board that was probably worth a dollar. What a rip! But you'd think they wouldn't pull that stuff any more --
do they also give kids a sex offender map when they go out?

Maybe school principals should read The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier, and call it a day.

On another note, I'd like to see more people's rooms in junior high. Mine had a lot of B. Kliban cats.

I remember they had us hawking Good n' Plenty candy... or was that what you'd get for selling a couple of magazine supscriptions? i can't remember!

Great one today. Classic Ian nostalgia. Suprised there's not a Dynamite or Bananas magazine on your bed -

Retrocrush has a hilarious dynamite mag cover gallery (spamfilter won't let the link be posted for some reason)

GFWD, i'm not quite sure from what you wrote if you already gave your cousin the money or not. if you haven't yet, the question, in my mind, is how easily could you part with the $1,000 (both financially and emotionally)? if you can spare it and if it wouldn't drive you crazy in the event that he doesn't pay you back, then i say by all means do it. if he pays you back, there's obviously no problem. but if he doesn't and it means you can't stand being in a room with him ever again, that might be a problem.

Aw, is that a Siamese on the pillows? sweeeeet.

I remember having to sell various crap all through school, with similar, shitty prizes. Then, once I reached high school and joined the band AND chorus, I had to sell fruit - double quota. And it was not for a prize, but the privilege of going to contests and traveling. Either that, or cough up $1000, which would equal about a 400 hours of babysitting in those days. (And frankly, there were just not enough Friday and Saturday nights to make that possible.) So anyway, my folks were, ah, not very involved in my school/social life, and so they would not help me sell the fruit or give me the $$. I can't tell you how many nights I sat on my bed in my room cold calling people, asking them to buy fruit. It was then that I decided that, no matter what, I would not go into sales for a living.

What was the kitty's name??

Grumphreys, I looooved Dynamite! Especially the "bummers" section.

That's our cat Elgar on my pillow!

Good stuff Ian! I secretly love maps too. But I think I've already mentioned that.

Anyway, I also have memories of selling stuff door to door, mostly Girl Scout Cookies. For more than 30 years now they have had the girls sell the cookies in January and then arrive around March or so. I remember freezing my ass off in Kansas selling those damn cookies, only to deliver them and have a few Catholic neighbors complain that it was the middle of Lent and they'd have to put away the cookies until Easter. Not being Catholic, I had no idea what the hell they were talking about, it must have been a really conservative church. Good times!

My kids have to sell Innisbrook wrapping paper. The school gets 50%, but each roll is $7! Which seems outrageous. And yes, they still have the cheap crap "prizes" for selling stuff. My husband refuses to take it to work, because he doesn't want his employees to feel obligated to but something. Plus all their kids are selling shit too! I would much rather give the school $14 than buy $28 worth of wrapping paper, but I do it. Our public school PTA actually asks each family for $250 at the end of the year, so we do that too. (Can you believe that?!)

Greg, if you can afford it, then loan your cousin the money. Sometimes people need a little help, and will actually pull through in the end. But you need to consider it a gift to him in your mind, so that you won't hold a grudge against him for the rest of your life if he doesn't pay you back. You Aunt will probably kick his butt if he doesn't pay you back, right? Or you could always make him sign something and threaten to sue him if he doesn't pay you back. Anyway, it's a tough call. Good luck.

GFWD, no matter what you do, DO NOT lend money to your cousin unless you're interested in losing the money AND any good will you have with your cousin, permanently.

Your choices are: turn him down as nicely as you can, or GIVE him all or part of the money. OK, instead of giving, you could TRADE the money for something he has and pretend for the time being that it's collateral for a "loan" (really, it means buying something from him for $1,000). But don't ever think of it as a "loan". Whatever money you hand to your cousin, don't ever think about ever seeing again.

I never lend. I give when I decide it's worth it, but I don't lend. It's not worth losing my peace of mind.

Two reasons why I will never be the lady on Forest Avenue:
Growing up, my Dad also refused to take stuff into the office to sell. There was always one lady, Mrs. Tayloe, who I could always ask to buy something and she always would. So, usually I ended up selling one thing for my school selling projects. Mrs. Tayloe also always had a cold co-cola for me whenever I stopped by to visit, so I stopped by a lot. I want to be the Mrs. Tayloe of my neighborhood.
Second, when I got out of college, the first job I took was as a, gulp, canvasser for the North Carolina Alliance for Conservation Action, meaning I went door to door asking for money for this organization. Pure misery for three months.
Without exception, when a child knocks on my door to sell something, I'll buy it and I hope that I have a cold co-cola in the refrigerator, too.
My seven year old's fundraiser for his school (2nd and 3rd grade school) raised $9,500.00 this year. I thought that was pretty impressive. It went straight back into the classroom, too.

As for selling crap for the school trip or whatever--ugh. It's a criminal racket. I remember the fifth grade school trip that cost an inflated amount to take, and they gave us the opportunity to sell Hershey's candy at double the retail price to offset the cost of the trip. And so, my weekends were spent combing neighborhoods begging people to buy overpriced chocolate. I sold an average amount, mostly to friends of the family, had a bunch of doors slammed in my face, and didn't get my homework done.

It was awful. And the Hershey company must have made a mint arranging for similar stunts in school districts around America, banking on people to pay double the normal price 'cause it's a ten year old wanting to go on the school trip.

At least the rich kids just paid the full cost of the trip themselves and didn't compete.

Two years later, in seventh grade, they tried it again. I took one look at the candles we were supposed to take door to door and filed it under "life's too short". I just went to the family friends who had bought most of the candy and asked if they were willing to donate a couple dollars to the school trip. A few of them did. I probably did better than if I'd tried hauling the stupid candles around, and it took far less time (the candles were JUNK. I figure some outlet wasn't able to give them away and had the great idea of unloading them via kids).

Another year, it was hideous greeting cards. That year, I decided that the trip itself wasn't worth the bother.

Yeah, I learned something about capitalism.

My question to Ian: Do you know now whether that stuff in the catalog could have been bought at the same quality somewhere else at a reasonable price without having to go through the whole magazine selling crap? Was the enlisting school kids thing a huge moneymaker for the magazine company AND the makers of the badminton sets and whatnot, or did your young labor actually result in in getting a bargain for your trouble?

Third comment and then I'll shut up.

Rich people always tell you they got their money by being thrifty about little things. If you aren't rich, it's because you're a bad person for having a silly little middle-class indulgence, not drugs or fancy jewelry or anything like that, but something small that a lot of people stereotypically buy a lot of and should be made to feel guilty about it.

In your youth it was magazine subscriptions. How dare you! Magazines are a luxury, not for people like you. Your magazine habit, and not the tax code favoring the rich, was the reason you were just getting by.

Today it's lattes.

Go to the library and look through as many books on investment, retirement savings and personal finance as you want. My bet is that most of them will advise you that doing without "your daily latte" and investing $3 per day instead will get you $100,000 in retirement money by the time you're 65.

Always, ALWAYS, it's lattes they use as their example. And you buy one for $3, every day. This is why you have a debt crisis and no retirement savings. It's those lattes you drink. Stop buying those lattes, you spendthrift pretentious upstart! Lattes are for closers! Who do you think you are?

Certified Financial Planners live in a weird world.

I 'loaned' the money. I hope to see it again. Can afford to loan it, don't really want to cover or deal with losing it. The cousin keeps assuring me to the point of exhaustion that he'll pay me back. Same cousin has a pretty big heart and took in his N'awlins family members when Katrina hit, took in his deadbeat older brother when his luck was down and supported a gold digging woman he thought was in love with him, too.

I trust him, but there will be a grudge if he doesn't pay me back. My wife believes in the notion that family helps family, as her extended family is no where near as close as mine. And I would not blink if this were a close cousin or my parents or sister. My wife has her mind in the right place, i.e. she's reconciled this as a gift for now.

I'm not there yet and I will have to battle like hell not to turn into a resentful and jaded "mushroom cloud laying motherf--ker" if he doesn't pay me back.

I'll keep you posted and see if karma and faith in humanity wins out over cynicism and folly of the naive and optimistic.

I grew up near Hackettstown, NJ, home of M&M/Mars. We sold M&Ms for fundraisers. Yum. Thus began my addiction to sugar.

One of the things I like best about my daughter's school is that they don't ask the kids to solicit. No imposing on neighbors and friends, no worries about child predators -- none of that. Instead, the school's families are asked to do more volunteer work, which I enjoy.

Dynamite Magazine. . . . what a flashback! I was all about Dynamite as a tween, and all about Ranger Rick when I was younger.

Chapel Hill schools have way too much selling for my comfort level. The wrapping paper Rebecca mentions is particularly annoying as it is so pricey. I've ordered it every year but my husband jokes that it just stays in our storage closet because I'm too cheap to "waste" it on anyone. So far, few people's presents have been deemed worthy of what must be gold layered wrapping paper.
I have tried the donating to the school instead of selling idea but they set up these prizes and the kids really want to try to win them so I usually give in and buy a couple things and sheepishly ask a few friends (whose kids have asked me in the past) but I never bring the stuff to work.

Emma, didn't we have to sell T shirts in college? Seems like both of just ended up with 10 of the same t shirt and it's not like we didn't have a captive audience there in the dorms. I remember we were both terrible and selling and I was surprised at your choice to do door to door stuff after college..
But, perhaps experiencing the life of a salesman is a good learning experience we all need - like waitressing, to know just how tough it can be.

By the way, GFWD, I think you did the right thing, although not sure I would've done it. I'd be afraid of becoming the family bank honestly.

Piglet you are so right! Those investment books do always mention a $3 coffee addiction! I guess saying "Live well below your means" goes over most people's heads.

Oh, and Ian, good luck with the pitches.

i'm the chair of one of my son's school fundraising committees. it's a public school.

our school is in a working class neighborhood in oakland. there is a huge free lunch population and on any given fundraiser you are likely to see a lot of postal money orders from folks who don't have bank accounts and actually make a special trip to the post office in order to buy something with a check.

it trips me out to think that people balk at buying stuff to support the local public school, whether it's your own kid's schol or a neighborhood school or whatever.

it's more than a trip, actually, it's fucking infuriating.

if i go to peole i know with money for the fundraiser, i get a lot of these same bullshit arguments.

like if only a fraction goes to the school it's not worth it. - if you are that put off, go ahead and write a check directly to the school!

and then there's this whole argument that says the kids shouldn't be out there "selling". - and yet i don't see whole neighborhoods swinging by the school to drop off some cash just in the nick of time.

are the kids whose schools can't afford science equipment or field trips and such supposed to just go suck it up while politicians figure out how to save the schools? i don't know about your kids, but i expect mine to only be in 3rd grade once. the kids can't actually wait that long.

and besides, i think every person in my entire extended family and all my friends SHOULD pitch in and support my kid's education, as moral imperative. anybody who can't chip in $5 for a potholder or whatever so that some 3rd grade class might actually get to go to the planetarium or witness a caterpillar turn into a butterfly is a TOTAL ASSHOLE. i tell my kid straight up that people SHOULD want to buy something from you and SHOULD support his school, and if they say no (even though they can afford it) then there is something fundamentally wrong with THEM, not him.

in my experience, the real irony is that it is actually the people with means, just like the rich lady, who give a lot of lip service to promoting inclusion and diversity (racial AND class diversity) but when it comes to the schools they choose for their kids and when it comes to opening up their wallets to put their money where their mouths are in support of these ideals, you see they are actually full of shit.

xuxE, I totally see your point. You're right.

My kids go to a school that is a melting pot of racial diversity, but zero class diversity. When we chose to live here 5 years ago, my oldest son was 3 and we chose our neighborhood based on the API score of the elementary school down the street. It seemed important at the time. I don't expect to be in Orange County that much longer, and I won't do that again.

Does anybody remember a publication called "Grit" that was advertised in the back of comic books? I have no idea what the subject matter of the publication was, but they always had a picture of a smiling kid and a lot of cool stuff that one (supposedly) could earn by selling it. I never tried it, and I never met anyone else who did. I wonder if it was even real...

I sold lightbulbs, candles, oranges, and oodles of raffle tickets to support choirs, band and various other music activities. Not being a very assertive salesperson, I hated every moment of it. But I guess it forced me out of my shell and taught me something, though I'm not sure what - maybe something about the underfunding of school music programs.

At least I got to go on some interesting trips because of our efforts.

I felt sorry for a school in my community that wasn't allowed to do any fundraising. They never did anything fun.

Piglet - to answer your question, the prize wasn't anywhere near the effort as seen through adult eyes; however, as a kid, I think anything you earn has special value, so I thought it rocked.

It sucks that the actual badminton set was so terrible - you can't even BUY one that bad nowadays. My dad threw it away, not realizing what it was, but that's a whole nother story.

As for the gun and the tractor, they were worth so many subscriptions that I doubt any kid in America actually got one. You would have had to enslave an entire populace to hundreds of magazine subscriptions, kind of like Veruca Salt's dad putting the peanut processing plant to work finding golden tickets in "Willy Wonka".

Eric - Funny you should mention Grit. I almost referenced Grit on the first comment to this post but figured the reference would be meaningless to many. My rock band in high school had an instrumental we wrote called "Delivering Grit". None of us knew (or know) anything about the magazine beyond what you liad out about it.

I hear you Xuxe but I think the issues of underfunding the public schools are way bigger than people not buying a candy bar, although the attitude of not wanting to give your money away is still there.

I went to public schools and my Mom was a long time principal of an public elementary school (where I went) that is 90% free lunch. Their school stopped doing child selling based fund raisers because of safety concerns. Many of these children lived in unsafe neighborhoods and the idea of sending them out to knock on doors seemed risky. They also had episodes of kids getting the money they collected stolen and the overall collection rate was low (not the mention the prizes as Ian suggests sucked).

My opinion is that many times these fundraiser mostly benefit the companies not the schools. I realize Chapel Hill public schools are an entirely different animal but we have created lots of interesting fund raisers that don't involve selling (although they still sell stuff too which I wish they didn't). We do a silent auction at our school which brings in thousands and is loads of fun. We have the PTA thrift shop which benefits many, many people and is the biggest money maker for the schools. We link our VIP cards at Harris Teeter, Food Lion and Target and get a % of sales, we order from Scholastic books and get a % for the schools.

The biggest thing we do in Chapel Hill though is we have an additional school-specific property tax and truly that is what helps the most. That, and the fact that property values are high here so the tax base is large. Yes, we chose this place to live because of the schools, as did many people. Lots of people don't want to pay extra taxes for the schools but in my mind you get what you pay for. Do we have a less diverse school - no - my child's classroom has over 6 different languages spoken at home. Maybe class/income is not as diverse since many of these children are university employees kids but that is the unfortunate side effect of a expensive property values. Given the choice though, since I have the means, I chose to put my kid in a school where there is more money spent per pupil. I still chose a public school because I believe there is more diversity there and more opportunity. This is especially important for my daughter with special needs as what she is provided is directly related to the funding they get and the public school special preschool she is in in Orange county is awesome! So, I'm not willingly going to put my kid in an underfunded school, honestly and I doubt many people do. Until we correct the inequality of regional based funding for the schools this will continue to be a problem - candy bar selling or not.

When I was little my Mom used to wear a t shirt that said "It'll be a great day when the government has a bake sale to buy bombs and the schools have all they need". Of course, I think this was worn primarily to irritate my Republican father, but it made a point.

Also, if anyone isn't aware - this organization is awesome for funding specific projects within the schools. Great for gifts to honor children, parents , etc.
http://www.donorschoose.org

GFWD - I think you did the right thing. I have a step-brother (8 yrs younger than me) that has not made many good decisions with his life. We were looking to part with a car a few (ok, maybe 7?) years ago and he, coincidentally, was in need of a way to get to and from his job at Burger King. We "sold" him the car for $1000, well under market value. The terms were generous: no money down, payments when he could manage. I haven't heard from him since and have heard reports that he sold the car within 3 months to get money for drugs. I still feel good about having reached out to help him and don't think that denying him the "loan" when we could easily afford it would have served any purpose other than to make he and my other family feel like I was the equivalent of the miserly old woman that wouldn't buy Ian's crappy magazines. Do what feels right and be willing to write the money off quickly if it becomes an issue.

I'm not sure if I made the case very well, or just provided an anecdote to bolster the case of those who would have turned down the request... I guess that's why I let Ian do the writing and I wear a suit and work in an office ;)

Ian - good luck with the pitch! Thanks for the story. National Geographic maps were my primary wall decoration as well at that age.

I did put my kid in an underfunded school - I chose to stop paying tuition and put my money into this school instead, because property taxes have ruined the system and created racial and class segregated schools as all the wealthy white folks buy property in the same area, the handful of affluent people of color are welcomed in for token diversity, and the rest of th schools where property values are low are left to rot.

I do think the problem is much larger than a fundraiser or a bake sale, but the personal is political and it's great to sit around over dinner and theorize about how to solve "those people's problems" but quite another to walk the walk and get involved and fight for these values.

It's a shame the school can't do the catalog sales though, those raise the most funds. I guess we are lucky to live in a safe place like oakland.

Ah, an auteur for Saveur--a subscription not always available from most door-to-door mag. peddlers. Make sure and include these delicious items:

1. Beer-Can Chicken (lots of beer left over)
2. Besa-Dillas (quesadillas with way more than a peck or smooch of cheese)
3. Sawmill Biscuits and Gravy (with extra LDL)
4. Grits and Ass (appetizing name I know)

Good luck!

The school my children attend is more than half Asian. I thought it was about 50-50, but when I went to check their API score yesterday after this discussion, I was actually surprised at the makeup of the kids taking the test. Here is the breakdown:

Asian 313
White 242
Hispanic 12
Filipino 8
American Indian 8
African American 5
Pacific Islander 1

It's unusual here because the new people moving into our neighborhood are almost all Asian, because they want their kids to go to our schools. So we have tons of ethnic diversity, but almost zero class diversity; everyone is probably considered wealthy. Personally, someday I would like to find a happy medium. A school with a diverse student body and encompassing different socioeconomic classes. But, perhaps that isn't possible.

I applaud you xuxE for what you are doing. You are right, you're putting your money where your mouth is, and so few are willing to do that. Me included. But since Governor Arnold is about to cut education funding more, things will be even tighter. I just don't know how those assholes in Sacremento can possibly justify cutting education costs. It's scary.

Rebecca, we live in intown Atlanta and the elem. school our child will go to (her granddad went there, too) does have both ethnic and class diversity. School profile from its website:

* 400 students (K-5)
* 4% Asian; 42% Black; 20% Hispanic; 31% White; 3% Multi-racial
* 44% eligible to receive free/reduced price lunches

The district includes a fancy old neighborhood, a lot of recent immigrant apartments and everything in between. Of course, it doesn't have the best test average, but it's a hidden gem--because the fancy folks and in-between folks give a lot of money and time--sweat, love, etc. Best fundraiser is the PTA Christmas tree sale. And they put on a heck of a talent show...it's not to be missed.

Thanks for sharing that CB! I know it's possible, and I think many times it's just finding a community that as a group has decided to value eduation. Many people talk the talk on that (according to my teacher parents) but simply cannot turn off the TV at home.

Anyway, enough about that. Ian, did you run out of fish oil? Are you sick?

xuxE -
It is reat to know there is osmone like you out ther who faithully supports all organizations that need your help and support. so many children aren't even healthy enough to go to school, able to walk, see, etc.... some live in third world counties and don't even have access to books. I am glad to know you support all of theses organizations as I believe we all have a moral imperative to. If you didn't support them you would be a TOTAL ASSHOLE (your own words).