xtcian

My guess is that Hillary's hanging around just in case a "dead girl/live boy" scenario arises. Either that or she really wants to hurt Obama as much as she can before the general, hoping that he'll lose so she can try again in 2012. The nomination is certain to be Obama's now, Wright or no Wright. Personally, I think Obamaniacs are too enthralled with Dear Leader not to vote for him for any reason. Getting 92% of the black vote is enough in a Democratic primary to overcome 65% of white voters who cast their ballot for Hillary (just because of the color of her skin -- those racists!). We will have to see whether Obama can woo those Hillary supporters in the GE.

Your peeps in NC are HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY!!!!

Obama should get John Edwards for his running mate.

Hillary and Bill should build a expensive B&B resort somewhere and play the sax and dance 'til the cows come home.

The surprising thing for me is that Hillary got as many votes as she did in NC. It was a lesson again for me about how odd Chapel Hill is. Living here you would've thought it would've gone 90% Obama. Everyone I knew (who talked about it at least) was voting for him and all you saw were Obama supporters and signs. At Trader Joe's yesterday I saw one woman with a Hillary sticker on and it looked so strange I had to look twice.
The coolest part of all of it though was seeing how many people voted at all. Almost every person I saw yesterday out and about had an "I voted" sticker on. That, in itself, is impressive, but again, it was Chapel Hill.

Never underestimate how important it is to scrimmage with the Tar Heels during a campaign. Should Obama make it to the general election, like he's headed, he should drop by Chapel Hill for another photo shoot with Psycho T and the Boys.

ding, dong the witch is dead...

Thing is, Matt, she could wait for the dead girl/live boy with a suspended campaign. I'm sure Edwards would get back in the race under such a scenario. I think she wants to help the dead girl/live boy to happen by running a "tough" campaign.

And if you don't think that in rural states, there is a meaningful percentage of white people who just will not vote for a black candidate, you are living in a fool's paradise.

Well 41 % of NCers who voted chose Hillary.

A condemnation of them and at least 41% of North Carolina is in order. Unless we only dismiss the citizens of Pennsylvania. But if your an equal opportunity hater ( which would be only fair and consistent with your previous posts) your probably going to have to get a bigger ice floe.

I'm assuming the 41% of old, racist, fearful, gun loving, idiotic, sub par stupid fellow DEMOCRATS who will be required to help get Obama elected are NOT the peeps you are proud of?

I'm curious as to the list of NC cities you have decided don't get to be apart of America anymore. I would like to call my friends and tell them to move if they are among the cities of the damned. I'm guessing that Chapel Hill is safe and any Hillary supporters there will get to live?

As this long and difficult process winds down I hope and pray that the kind of hatred displayed on this blog and on many others will subside. Passion for one's candidate is a great part of the political process. But tearing each other ( and one's party) apart makes me sick to my stomach.

I guess its another sign of the death of civility in our country. Along with costumer service. Which in itself is a sign of the decline of America's leadership. Our century is past. China, India and others are about to have their turn at the head of the table. And we are behaving like very spoiled children.

I'm not sure the current primary would have lasted so long if it wasn't for American Idol. Seriously. Reality TV's fascination with "survival of the fittest contests" has completely obliterated any thread of the separation between fact and fiction and turned everything into an on going competition where truth is a temporal device used to get to next week's installment. And in a country deep in its capitalistic middle age, winning has become everything. Hillary certainly embraces that concept and love it or hate it.. its a quality that Obama will have to show if he hopes to win in the general election.

In the meantime,I hope we can commit ourselves to "binding up the country's wounds"

We need everyone. Including the 41%.

Kudos to nephew Sean!

Here's what I think. I think that our presidential election process is waaaaaaay too protracted. I suffer from primary fatigue about this time of each election year. I get to the point where I *almost* don't care who wins the whole enchilada; just STOP already with the ads, the polls, the debates, the mud-slinging, the one-upping, the talk-show polarization of fellow citizens, the second-guessing and analyses by talking heads.

(One of our genius morning radio talk-show guys said today, to a caller who supports Obama: "So you want Reverend Wright in the White House?" Um, yeah, that's definitely what this campaign is all about: Rev. Wright. Christ.)

If I feel this way, I can only imagine what the candidates feel like. Why haven't they collapsed by now from sheer physical burnout? I guess they're still running on adrenaline.

it is ironic dpdir because as I read your comment i sensed meanness and contempt. Perhaps I interperated it incorrectly - but that is what it seemed like to me.

dpdir, the healing needs to begin with you calming down. I don't think every Clinton voter is a racist, and I didn't say so. What part of "meaningful percentage" indicates every Clinton voter? If you are denying that some people in North Carolina, for God's sakes, won't vote for Obama for the wrong reasons, I could introduce you around Beaufort County for an afternoon.

(Luckily, many of the people I'm thinking of won't vote for McCain, either. A true yellow dog is more prejudiced against republicans than African-Americans.)

I still think the MI and FL flap show that Hill is too unprincipled to be president, and if my having that opinion in enough to divide the party, so be it. 2+2=4 even if we never win another election.

ASD and BACK TO ANONYMITY:

I was referencing Ian's post after the Pennsylvania primary, not yours BACK. I should have made that clear. And ASD; I was making a point about the meanness and contempt in this post:

see ians entry posted on April 22, 2008 entitled "Wlikes Is Barren"

It's heartwarming to see a young person like Sean caring so much - 18 hours a day!! Definitely taking a bite out of apathy.

What should happen now? I don't know. I don't like all the divisiveness, but pointing out Obama's and Hillary's flaws only makes them better and truly ready for the White HOuse.

If Obama wins the nom, I'll support him - however, he damn well better come up with a real plan to help the uninsured. This is about life or death, not politics. Hillary tried to fix health care once, and the special interests and Republicans bogged her plan down so much, she couldn't do it. Unfortunately (or fortunately) we have to be realistic when we fix the country's problems - and at the same time not give up our ideals. I think that's what Obama tries to say, but let's see him put it into action and really come up with a way to help the poor, that can get passed. (Same for Hill'y.)

"...there is a meaningful percentage of white people who just will not vote for a black candidate..."

Sure, Lyndsay, but not 92%. It's a sad reflection on the African-American community that practically all its votes are based on racial solidarity.

"...she could wait for the dead girl/live boy with a suspended campaign. I'm sure Edwards would get back in the race under such a scenario."

True, but she's in a better position by already being in the race. Much better than if she had dropped out long ago, which would have her about even with Edwards (or even Gore).

Fools Paradise? Isn't that a blue state? With free universal health care. The doctor of your choice, no waiting lists, no shortages of doctors, plenty of medicine and health facilities to go around, no tort reform necessary, etc. And it will all be paid for by taking the profits of capitalist pigs.

I was surprised Hill lost most of a pretty solid lead in Indiana. Obama kept his wide margin in NC after pre-election polls said he was down to 5-7%.
I think Obama had a pretty strong showing last night. There are 5.8M registered voters in NC..2.6M Dems, 1.9M pubs and 1.2 unaffiliated.

Last night, 1.6M voted in the Dem contest and .5M voted in the Pub contest. I think a lot of Hill supporters are coming in from the unaffiliated voters (particularly white males). I think they plan to vote for McCain in the fall and believe that he will win against Hill but will be vulnerable against Barak....this is the only reason i can think Hill is getting the bubba vote nationwide..think about it for a second.. Hill getting the blue collar white vote? Would anyone have ever thought that was a possiblity a year ago?

In NC if you are a Pub, there usually is not much to shout about in the primaries and as a result many Pubs are registered Dem here. This is a Dem state that votes Pub for Pres and Dem for statewide almost every election.

I don't think it is a racist or sexist vote at this point. I think the two primary groups in this country who have ALWAYS been left out of the process (women and blacks) are simply voting for the one that looks most like them in the absence of much real difference in the candidates.

Barak carried the state handily, but in almost every other race in the state, the white woman won. How does that relate to race or sex?

I just want to stick up for my home front of Beaufort County, N.C. Yesterday's results from there:

51% Obama
45% Hillary

Meanwhile, some of the western N.C. counties were going 70% Hillary. I think it was Graham County that went 77% Hillary to 18% Obama. Now, that's hardcore.

Hey, Matt, I'm kinda serious about the anonymous bit. But I hate seeing my name spelled wrong. What do I do? Please advise.

I agree with you agreeing with me.

I agree that it is sad that in 2008 an Obama candidacy is still such a novelty that it inspires such racialized voting. As a country, we could have done better by now.

And I agree that she is in a putatively better place because she has stayed in the race. Although it is arguable, since her negatives are proudly on display, unlike, say, Gore's. But in the end, she got ore votes than anyone besides Obama, so she would be the obvious choice if he nosedived somehow.

*checks the temperature in hell*

Oh, wait, you wrote something snarky at the end. We can fight about that....

Nope, the segueway was too dumb for a response. And I loves me some tort reform, anyway. But what's your position on punitive awards? Are you damned because you do, or damned because you don't? (Actually, hold that thought for another time. I won't be back for 24 hours or so.)

Ok, Matt, we get it, we get it: whites are better than blacks in every way imaginable.

Sam,

I don't know how "hardcore" it is. Graham had less than a thousand votes for Hillary. Meanwhile, at least four counties went for Obama with more than 70% (Durham went 75%, with 58,000 votes for Obama).

What the hell is wrong with you, Terri?

Matt: "Personally, I think Obamaniacs are too enthralled with Dear Leader not to vote for him for any reason."

Yeah, effing Obama geeks. No way any of them could have examined his resume, checked his policy positions on his website, and arrived at a rational decision to support him.

Matt: "Getting 92% of the black vote is enough in a Democratic primary to overcome 65% of white voters who cast their ballot for Hillary (just because of the color of her skin -- those racists!)."

The Ku Klux Klan world headquarters is in Martinsville, Indiana. There are plenty of Hoosiers that won't vote for any black man. Plenty of Americans who feel the same way. Lucky for us, they're mostly Republicans, but I've no doubt some of them are Democrats, and they no doubt voted against Obama in the primaries yesterday, for no other reason.

Are those people racists? I think by definition, they are.

I don't think it's that simple though. There are people who just plain like Hillary Clinton more than Obama. There are older voters who are more favorably disposed to an older candidate. There are people who are disturbed by the Reverend Wright association.

Someone -- Howard Fineman maybe? -- said the other day on MSNBC that Hillary's gas tax holiday proposal was popular with 'low-information' voters -- people who don't spend a lot of time on understanding the issues in the election. Those same low-information voters have an impression of Wright, and the Wright/Obama relationship.

In my decidely biased opinion, people who don't understand Reverend Wright and are disturbed by him might not be overtly racist, but there is a strong current of implicit racism in their feelings about him. What disturbs people, more than any particular statement Wright made, is that he's an angry black man who doesn't make nice for the white folk. Obama is not that sort of person -- he's not angry with white America. He went to the largest traditionally black church in Chicago because it was an obvious choice, with numerous attractive attributes.

I am bothered by Wright's hamming it up at National Press Club, and his unwillingness to use his obvious intelligence to make his case in a way that doesn't sabotage Barack Obama. But to question Obama's judgement for attending Wright's church is the purest bullshit. Do people think he's somehow a black Manchurian Candidate who will et elected and then set the Capitol on Fire and run around screaming "KILL WHITEY?" Give me a break.

Matt: "We will have to see whether Obama can woo those Hillary supporters in the GE."

I don't think that's going to be that big of a problem for 3 reasons:

1) Hillary Clinton will sincerely campaign for Obama once the nomination is settled. She might be ambitious, but she's not a monster.

2) Without Clinton trying to raise doubts about Obama, and in fact campaigning for him, her supporters, except for a vanishingly small number of die hards will have an easier time seeing his qualities.

3) Conservatives look at Democrats and see chaos and rancor, and think it can never be resolved. But the core Democratic principal is that we're all in this together. Nothing makes a Democrat feel more warm and fuzzy than having a leader to rally around. Then it's "Solidarity Forever!"

Up to that point, Democrats will fuss and fight like nobody's business. They like to argue. Democrats value independent thinking, which means that people will disagree.

Contrast that with the Republican Party. Talk about devotion to Dear Leader! Republicans like Big Daddy to tell them what to think. They derive security from strong hierarchical authority.

Maybe both my descriptions are caricature, and maybe sometimes Democrats lose elections because they can't stop arguing and unite. But I like that a whole lot more than the idea of being a Republican.

Hillary needs to clear the way for Obama. The sooner the better. This is just too painful to watch.

Sam, I'm tickled to see it, and am proud of us. Of course, I use the term "us" loosely, because, as we all know:

"Chew tobacca,
chew tobacca,
chew tobacca,
Spit.

If you ain't from Bath,
you ain't worth shit."

And the only reason I get that ecumenical is that nothing good rhymes with Whitepost.

I have lots of questions. Went to see Iron Man last night and then watched election results. the movie is great, by the way.

How come Obama is saddled with the sins of his preacher but Catholic candidates (I know there aren't any left in this particular race) aren't traditionally saddled with the sins (pedophilia, chief among them) of their rogue priests?

Hillary could not have been poised for a greater victory than she was with these two races in NC and INDY. She had the Wright debacle going against Obama and she still didn't make a decisive move. His popular vote win in NC effectively nullified her "big win" in PA. The fact that he walked her down from that 28 point first half lead in Indiana to close it to 4 points also took a lot of wind out of her sail. (Yes, I'm still working through some Kansas angst.)

If you're big money in the Democratic party or an on-the-fence Superdelegate, wouldn't you have to be looking at Obama over her now? Isn't pressure behind the scenes going to build asking her to step aside? If not, why? Is so, when?

If you're a Republican, are you concerned or impressed with the fact that the young whippersnapper has weathered some mud slinging and big boy politics and still maintained some momentum?

Is every Hillary supporter on this blog going to vote for Obama or has it gotten so ugly that you'll sit out or go for McCain? And if she wins, would the Obama fans vote for her?

And who was SHIELD in the Iron Man comics? Wasn't really a fan of the comic before the movie Anyone else think Gwynneth looks better as a blonde than a strawberry blonde?

Matt> '"...there is a meaningful percentage of
Matt> white people who just will not vote for
Matt> a black candidate..."
Matt>
Matt> Sure, Lyndsay, but not 92%. It's a sad
Matt> reflection on the African-American community
Matt> that practically all its votes are based on
Matt> racial solidarity.

Err, what?

1) Black America is not monolithic. There are many different reasons for black folks to vote for Obama, and it is insulting to them to assume that they're voting for Obama just because he's African-American.

2) Who the hell are you to judge anything about what black folks do? If every single black voter vote for Obama just because he looks like them, it's their right! How many millions of people voted for George W Bush for equally shallow reasons? Is that because they can't or won't vote for white people, or because they're happy to see someone who looks like them finally get a shot at the Presidency?

Believe me, black folks have plenty of practice voting for white folks. I wouldn't worry too much about them losing the knack.

3) You talk about Black Solidarity like it's a bad thing. Again WTF? Black solidarity isn't about skin color -- the number of African-Americans who are purely of African descent is vanishingly small -- it is about culture. Black solidarity was for a long time in American history a matter of survival. Maybe some day the prejudice and stigma of being African-American will recede to the point where being black is like Norwegians eating Lutefisk or Italians drinking Chianti.

But right now, Black Solidarity and Black Consciousness are important components of how black folks find a positive identity for themselves, in the face of ongoing prejudice. That prejudice be just as damaging when it's subtle as when it's blatant.

I'll just limit this to a couple of things since I need to finish my work at a decent hour tonight.

First, above I was mocking the oft-heard charge that since a super-majority of white voters are voting for the white woman it's evidence of racism. These same people feel no need to explain why 92% of blacks vote for the black candidate. No doubt some people like his policies better or think he has better character. But the evidence shows there's something else at work and it's not white racism, or at least not in the same percentages. So I was criticizing that aspect. But you want to know why we can never have an intelligent discussion about race in this country? People like Terri. Criticizing racist behavior is itself racism because it's not directed toward the "proper" group.

As for the gas-tax holiday, Obama is right. If that was my only issue, he'd have my vote.

The problem with Rev. Wright is that it does lead to a whole lot of questions about the candidate Obama, who we really know very little about. Why such a close relationship for all those years when he had to have known Wright's views? Why subject his children to it? (You know all the questions.) Did he join that church because of his wife, because it was politically advantageous at the time, etc? Whatever reason, I hope it's not because he secretly shares those views or sympathizes with them. (If he did, he's smart enough to know he'd better hide it! By the way, what's his position on reparations? I really don't know.) Then there's the Ayers and Frank Davis friendships. Why so many radicals in his life?

But those are questions for later. The Wright problem is solved.... at least until Denver.

Just saw Kent's more recent rant. Sheesh. I guess it could be just a coincidence that more than 90% of blacks vote for the black candidate and it has nothing to do with racism. But if it does, I maintain that is not a good thing... no matter who's being racist.

dpdir,
i understood what blog entry of ian's you were referencing when i read your post. ian has already been flogged for that post and i do not see any reason to continue to rake him over the coals. agian, perhaps i misinterperated your entry , but it seemed mean to me.

asd
( a suv driving registered republican who like to read other points of view)

ps - next car will have much better mpg and will vote for obama!

I think I figured out what attracts Matt to Ian's blog. They are both willing to die on every hill.

Sam - careful about giving your homefront too big a pat on the back. Remember that it is the same county that continually reelects a county commissioner who wants to remove spanish from DSS's telephone prompt and make english the official language of Beaufort County.

GFWD:

All me to answer your questions vis-a-vis your previous statements:

1. I was a huge Avengers comic book fan back in the day. I can't wait to see the movie.

2. Obama/Wright is not analogous to a Catholic/priest issue. Abuse of children by priests is done in secret with no way of the parishoners knowing about it. This is way different than sitting in a pew for 20 years and hearing these sermons week in and week out, out in the open for all to hear and comment upon. Obama's issue in this case is, A) did you believe in what Wright had to say in these sermons; and B) if not, why didn't you find another church? Are you going to ask a Catholic if they condone abusing altar boys? I don't think any Catholic would compare a pedophilic priest to a "crazy old uncle". Apples and oranges, my friend.

2. Hillary was never in the game in NC. The NC race was going to be Obama's slumpbuster. Of far more significance was his good showing in Indiana. But I do think it's a stretch to say BO's NC win negates PA - PA was a place he could have, and should have, won to end this thing. He was expected to win NC and a loss here would have really crippled him.

3. I think this is a gots-to-go situation for HRC. If she could have somehow won NC, then she could make a real case, say like coming back from nearly 30 down to get it within 5, but now Green's 3 has rimmed out and HRC is doomed to inevitability. But anyone who thinks the Clintons will go quietly has been under a rock for the past 16 years. You're absolutely right - enough supers will have to stop hedging their bets and come out publicly for BO until there's no mathematical way she can win. As long as she feels like she's got a shot, she's going to stay in. Kind of like carrying a torch for someone until you see her walking down the aisle with another man.

4. I don't think the Repubs are scared of BO beyond this cult of personality thing. You're right - they will portray him as a wet-behind the ears whippersnapper whose accomplishments and legislative record will pale next to a 30-year Senate veteran. And primary politics are nothing compared to the white-hot light of the general. Repubs will go nuk-u-lur on his ass in a minute. Wait for the Willie Horton, Swift-Boating phase of the campaign to begin about September 15th.

5. Yes, I'm willing to bet every level-headed Hillary supporter on this blog will vote for BO if they truly care about the issues and think he will be better for the country than McCain.

matt:

there's a huge difference between black folks voting for obama because he's black, and white folks voting against him because he's black. If you can't see that and persist in calling it black 'racism' I guess we don't have much to talk about.

It sure is curious to me how eager some white people are to tell black people how they should think, feel and vote. HEY BLACK PEOPLE! STOP BEING ANGRY ABOUT SLAVERY! STOP BEING MAD ABOUT SEGREGATION! STOP BEING MAD ABOUT THE TUSKEEGEE EXPERIMENT! HEY, NO ONE'S BEEN LYNCHED FOR 60 ODD YEARS! GET OVER IT! AND UNLESS A DECENT PERCENTAGE OF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY YER A BUNCH OF RACISTS!

What a load of shit.

just curious - why would spanish be on a phone prompt in any NC county in the first place?

zel - LOL on the "nuk-u-lur..."

to answer ian's ? i think HRC should get out of the race gracefully and soon.

i am (was) a supporter of hers but thought that unless she dominated obama after his recent problems that she was toast. its now apparent that she is not going to be able to close the deal and its time. she had every right to stay in the race when there was a chance that she could build up some mo and make a case but there is no chance of that happening so its time for some democratic solidarity. as for those who think HRC supporters will vote for mccain instead of obama i think that is republican wishful thinking.

the only thing thats going to be tough for me in supporting obama is hearing his yes we can chant. time for an update on that one. it reminds me of the john kerry help is on the way chant. lame o.

and i dont think obama should pick HRC as veep by the way.

Zel M.,

Thanks for helping to put things in perspective for me. You reckon Hillary's gonna wear an Obama sticker on her chest if one of her former super delegates hands it to her at the convention?

Wasn't there already an AVENGERS movie, Zel? Besides, the real comic book epic is still in production: The Watchmen.

I will not vote for Hillary regardless, but why would you drop out of a close race when you've had the experience of your first elected office as a Senator from a powerful state with many power brokers and you had never spent time in the state to begin with.
GFWD: It goes both ways. I think plenty of Hillary supporters "on this blog" will vote for Obama. There are many more older Hillary supporters in NC who will vote for McCain.
I would vote for McCain if Hillary gets the nomination, only because I think McCain is strange, sketchy, hard to pin down - all things that will drive Republicans crazy. He will be able to express his moderate leanings once he's #1.

Nothing is wrong with ME, Matt, that a little Matt-generated list of things that are sad reflections on the white community at-large won't cure. But thanks for asking after me though - 'ppreciate ya! ;-D

Does Sean Patrick have a girlfriend? Just asking. . . as I remember, he is quite cute, and he ROCKS.

One day post-NC primary and as a NC voter I still find myself not sure who was the better candidate. Maybe I'm more of a middle of the road Dem than I ever imagined. After months and months of debate-watching, blog-reading, process-education and much more election agenda, I still found myself uncomfortable about my choice as I walked into the polls at 9am yesterday.

In the end, I voted for HRC. Since Edwards bowed out of the Democratic race, I've been unable to successfully become a BO or HRC follower. In the end, I chose HRC because I felt like I agreed with more of her tangible policies/philosophies than any other candidate. I did consider BO but in the end decided that despite immeasureable time spent trying to get to know him, all I kept hearing was "it's time for real change" with no concrete plan to get us there.

Having said that, I am not disturbed by his win or upset that HRC got toasted in the Old North State. I will gladly hitch my wagon to BO's horses in the Novemeber general if he gets the Nom -- as I'm sure he will -- but I'll fall short of begging HRC to give in at this point.

By the way, I also want to point out that people continue to make issue out of the fact that there are plenty of rural folk who would never back a black candidate. Aren't there plenty of those same folk who just couldn't muster enough gumption to put a woman in the White House? I know for example, my own mother, who is 62 and has never voted made the comment that she was going to register for the first time & vote for B.O. because a woman has no place trying to run the country.

LFMD: Hilarious! I think he's too young for you, and yet too old for Helen. (I know that's not what you were insinuating, but that's where my mind went...)

back to anonymity,

Ok with the anonymous thing, but you've got to come up with something better than that. And you may have a point about the "every hill" thing, too.

Kent,

There's no difference between voting for someone just because he's the same color as you and voting against someone because he's not. To the extent I'm telling black people how to feel or vote, it's only to say that voting on the basis of color is racist. Sorry if that offends you.

Well, I promise you that you always know it's me. I just don't want my life to be as public as Ian's. I was already creeped out enough by that jb**gie guy to do a informal background check and review of NYS cyberstalking law.

Turn off the TV

I'm with Matt - you need a better name than "back to anonymity", Lyndysy.

Rebecca - Ha! Oh dear, I fear that I sound like. . . what is the new term? . . . a COUGAR! Eeek.

Was just thinking that Sean Patrick is exactly the kind of young man I would want my daughter to date! Cute, kind, smart, committed, and from Wholesome Iowa (where my husband's family is from. Eagle Grove in the House! Clear Lake in the House!). What is not to like about this Fine Young Man?

BtA,

Earlier you wrote, "please advise." Here goes... If anonymity is what you want don't complain when your name is misspelled and stop giving clues as to where you live. Guessing your occupation isn't difficult (I think) and those other two bits of info are probably enough to narrow the list down considerably.