xtcian

Even if a majority of kids don't practice it, why isn't abstinence still a good idea and a good ideal to strive for and encourage. But also to be taught in conjunction with appropriate birth control and protection from STDs. You make it sound like abstinence is a bad thing.

i'm with emma...provided it's not being taught void of other options, abstinence amongst teens is not a bad thing to be encouraging.

"Can we start handing out condoms now?"

Who is "we"?

I believe decent people try to do the right thing and teach their children decent values. Sometime we fail. It doesn't mean we should give up.

Well, given that abstinence is absolutely NOT going to happen, I really don't see the point. I'm all for scaring teens shitless and making movies like "The Last Prom" or something, where would-be 16-year-old moms would get a glimpse of their shitty-ass teen years raising a newborn. If that counts as abstinence training, sure.

I agree that teaching and recommending abstinence for teens is a good idea as long as safe sex is also encouraged and taught (though safe sex should be the focus, not treated as a side-note).

But, I do think we have to be concerned about what grounds are used in pushing abstinence. I don't have kids, but if I did, I wouldn't want any religious, moral, or spiritual reasoning to be used for the abstinence push, especially in schools (where they don't have a place to begin with). Of course, religious parents are going to go that route with their kids, but I think it's a mistake.

I would want to argue for abstinence based solely on concerns about pregnancy and STDs, and the generic "you're not ready emotionally" standpoint.

I just don't think arguing that sex is immoral is effective or appropriate. I actually think if my parents had focused more on realistic fears of pregnancy and STDs rather than trying to beat me down with the "immorality" of sex, it would have worked better. Okay, maybe not, but it wouldn't have made me completely tune them out on the subject.

I agree with Scott M.

How could I tell my kid that sex is wrong when really and truly, I consider losing my virginity at 17 to be one of the highlights of my youth?

My father educated me on the risks of sex (pregnancy, disease, emotional hell) and the ways to prevent the risks (condoms, condoms, honest communication); his advice has served me well. Why shouldn't I pass it on?

Background: I support the a broad sex-ed curriculum, including about both abstinence and birth control education.

That said: saying that abstinence is "unrealistic" for teenagers because it is unrealistic for one individual teenager, or 20 individual teenagers, or 200,000 individual teenagers, fails to take into account the huge number of people who choose not to have sex until age 20 or older. I assure you, there are plenty. Perhaps learning about abstinence or being taught about abstinence or being encouraged to abstain has helped to give them the courage and/or willpower they need to make this perfectly valid and healthy choice for themselves.

Religious motivations for stressing abstinence are oft misunderstood--even by the religious themselves. The basis for the notion of encouraging young people to "wait until marriage," or at least "adulthood," is, in its pure form, the desire to protect young people--and their potential offspring--from the physical consequences and emotional fallout of sex before one is mature enough to have it.

Simply put, if you don't have sex when you're a teenager, you won't ever, as a teenager, be impregnated. You will never be devastated by making yourself emotionally vulnerable to someone who then dumps you for a hot cheerleader. You will have one less slew of problems to worry about as you're trying to figure out who you are, focus on your schoolwork, etc. That is all. Contrary to popular belief, there is no "morality" in a vacuum. The morality in question concerns one's responsibility to oneself.

I feel for Bristol Palin's two-month-old son. His life is already off to a rocky start. Would it be better if his parents had married? I don't know. Probably not. But most children in his situation face years of either being shuttled back and forth between parents, or else not really knowing their biological father. Birth control or abstinence, people.

My basic rule is not to believe anything anyone tells me about 1) sex and 2) drugs (and this applies doubly to teenagers). You'd be amazed by the number of people with HIV who claim they have "no idea" how they got infected and then vaguely speculate about some tattoo they got in 1987.

And I more than agree about the uselessness of abstinence-based education. In fact -- there is actually scientific evidence that supports this position!

A rigorous analysis of all the published trials showed that risk of pregnancy was 54% higher among teenagers exposed to abstinence-only programs compared with those who were not. (Dicenso, British Medical Journal 2002)

That's right, abstinence-only sex education actually _causes harm_. Isn't it great when the science supports what you thought anyway?

you somehow make heterosexuality a dirty word. maybe we need a "straight pride" parade.

craighill: there already IS a straight pride parade:

http://urlizer.com/00/2461/

Maybe you could tell your daughters to hold out for Tyler Hansbrough...

BTW, he's a semi-finalist for the AAU Sullivan award. Cast your vote for Psycho T here:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2009-03-09-sullivan-award-2008_N.htm

Abstinence isn't a perfectly healthy choice, it's utterly stupid. Teenagers should abstain from sex, but, um, NOBODY ELSE DOES? How does that make any sense? It would be like saying "I know pizza is delicious, but, listen, it isn't very good for you and it costs money... except if you're married, then you can eat as much pizza as you want!" Even if you're married, you're gonna tell me you've never ONCE had sex for fun or to burn off steam?

It's completely dumb. Yes, teens can get diseases, and there's an emotional element to having sex too often with too many people... but if you're worried about disease, then why isn't daycare a giant broohaha? Why wasn't there giant moral outcry when President Bush famously hocked a loogey on the lawn, a far more dangerous act in terms of spreading disease. And most of the emotional scarring is because of jerks who don't want kids having any fun, so they do anything they can to shame them.

Sex isn't bad, it's good. IT'S WHY YOU"RE HERE, and it's fun. If you think "God" or whatever didn't want us to enjoy it, then why do we have giant penises (compared to other primates) and what's the point in a female orgasm?

Teens should be taught about sex and masturbation, and they should be taught to respect their parents feelings about abstinence and to follow their own religious and moral code. But the ABSURD idea that abstinence should be the *starting* point is brain aching.

to say that teens should follow their own moral code and then berate abstinence as a stupid choice is the height of arrogance. of course sex is normal and healthy and fun. does that mean that children should have it? people with heart problems? people who don't feel emotionally ready? do you really think phlegm on the lawn is a greater public health threat than the hpv epidemic among teenage girls? I'll also go out on a limb and say that sex is a slightly more serious matter than pizza. and I adore pizza and have devoted countless hours to its study.

another thing: where does the notion come from that because one supports abstinence as a valid choice one thinks sex should only occur for purposes of procreation? the point is not that teens shouldn't have the fun of sex. rather they should do a cost benefit analysis and weigh the pros and cons. for many reasonable teenagers the balance tips in favor of simply not having sex for a year or two or three. I would wager that in a study of teenage women who were infectef with an std through one act of nonorgasmic intercourse that the majority would state the sex wasn't worth it. ditto a study of teenage boys whose single 45 second climax resulted in fatherhood.

I side with Sean and his giant, greater than ape, penis. How ironic that married folk tell teenagers to abstain. It's really, "I can only have as much pepperoni pizza as I like but you, who could have meat-lovers, margherita, and pesto should have none."

It's looking less and less like Wasilla will become the next Hyannis Port.

Thanks to Sean and Claudia for a great laugh!
Little Tripp Palin-whatever is going to be fine. Sarah Palin appears to be a loving, involved parent, and she will raise those 2 babies together. Hopefully Bristol will finish high school and maybe go to college! The bar is set pretty low in that family, so it won't take much to impress the parents. At least Sarah won't have to worry about Trig fathering any babies!

Personally, I support abstinance until you get to college. As a parent, I don't want to worry about catching my teenage son with his girlfriend (or 2 hookers) in the playroom. (Did you read that story on Huff Post?)

Honestly, I don't think that Palin can be free of worry concerning the possibility that her younger son might engage in unsafe sex. It's totally possible and in fact highly probable that he will be sexually active, despite having Downs' Syndrome, and I hope she or someone provides him with education and guidance around that. Just felt the need to say that.

It strikes me as a legitimate question to consider how far we believe our advice, as adults, really goes with the average teenager. I tend to think that information has the potential to go a lot farther than advice with teenagers, in terms of offsetting unwanted consequences.

joanna, you missed my point. i'm not telling teenagers that they must or even should obstain. i'm merely saying it's ok if they want to, and that it's good for us as a society to provide support for that choice (isn't it the left that's supposed to be pro choice(s))? but I really can't be upset with you because you spelled margherita properly.

sex is fun

I like it that we're refusing to move on to today's topic!
Claudia, I really do see the validity of your many well thought out and articulated arguments. I was just tired and punchy after getting kids to bed, in the mood to make penis jokes and fantasize about free lovin' teenage years. Mr. Pepperoni Pizza didn't see the humor in my post either.

ian that was really funny. go heels.

"Abstinence isn't a perfectly healthy choice, it's utterly stupid."

Okay, Sean, so let's say an 11-year-old girl has mostly friends who are 12 and 13 who have started doing it, and she isn't really into the idea but is being pressured...and she pretty much hears that absintence is stupid and sex is no big deal.

Should we smile and pat her on the back when a 13-year-old boy puts the moves on her and she figures, hey, I guess I might as well because I'm supposed to do this? More specifically, starting at what age are you talking about - 14? 11? 8? Really, what's the cutoff???

And if a kid started eating a dirty slice of pizza that had spent hours inside some other kid's pants, or on the floor, or handed to her by a virtual stranger, we'd be careful about that too.

What about a 17-year-old girl (or boy) who just doesn't feel ready to be intimate with someone and so she's staying away from it? It's not utterly stupid if you are a shy kid who doesn't want to be pressured or get intimate with someone just because everyone else is doing it...

Part of being a true open-minded liberal is realizing not everyone is exactly like you. Therefore, abstinence certainly should be taught as an option - just one.

And yes, AIDS is still around, and a cavalier attitude isn't going to help stop its spread. Abstinence is not the only choice but it's sure as hell not a 'stupid' one.

As for Bristol and Levi, we don't know how they felt about each other, why they got together, why they broke up, and using their relationship to make a political point is really reaching. For all we know, they thought they were in love and now they don't.

Ironically, we're saying we trust kids to make the right decisions about sex, but not to make the right decisions about getting married or not getting married. Very hypocritical. Maybe it was a charade, maybe it wasn't, but it doesn't change my views of what kids should learn. I think they should get all the options and be well aware of the risks.

Finally, the female orgasm helps draw the sperm up through contractions of the cervix. It's not necessary for reproduction but it helps. Just so you know.