Ian, I hate to hijack so much space with my comment, but I wanted to share with the other Heels in this forum the email I sent out with the dook fan sites rants. Feel free to delete if it's too long. Enjoy and what a nice photo shop job.
The Duke message board schadenfreude spectacular begins below; I can’t claim any responsibility for poor spelling or grammar. It starts with the first post-announcement series of posts:
It's official...I have a headache.
OMG..... **** NO!!!!
**** you GOD!
Hmmmm... Looks like I picked the wrong day to quite sniffing glue.
HE'S GOING TO UNC
I want to die. I want to die. I want to die.
you've got to be kidding me....ohlord
BS!!!! OMG I CANT BELIEVE IT
Break a leg Barnes, no really, break one!
How on earth could this happen..... i dont understand.. im shocked.. and scared.. and just in total dismay. Bullock, Harrison, and Martin.. we are screwed... we need Rivers.. and we neeeeeeeeeed to some how lure in roscoe smith. We need a coach k miracle..
Q: do we even have a shot with roscoe smith?
A: Maybe – the heels are out of scholarships
this one hurts K . . . both professionally and personally. the reality is that Williams has kicked his butt in head-to-head face-offs, whether it's off the court (recruiting) or on the court (games). and . . . while K may make it less lopsided, it appears that he will not be pulling ahead anytime soon.
I've said a number of times that when Roy came to UNC, it'd be the perfect storm--his recruiting prowess coupled with the cachet of UNC would produce serious results.
But I still didn't think I'd see him eat K's lunch like this. Two titles in five seasons (I know he didn't recruit the guys for one of them--doesn't matter), and now reeling in a staggering number of recruits, including the biggest one of all.
I know that Barnes is a good, classy kid and all but now.......I have to pull against him. Hell, I have to really dislike him just like I do all the other UNC **holes.
I can’t believe that I have been on pins and needles for days hoping that we would get this kid. I mean to the point where I haven’t even been thinking about much else. Screw it, I am 55 years old, my wife has lost her job.......there is a heckuva lot more things in life than worrying about where 17 & 18 year old kids are going to play basketball. I mean in a couple of years he is going to be in the NBA, which to me is pretty much oblivious anyway.
Hell guys, I am outta here. I am going to go get my life back and not worry about games and crap like this. Lots more important in life than this junk. Maybe I will see you around sometime...........................
If they weren't already thinking this, then they should be now. Just the way this whole competition went down seems so in line with how K has slipped in the last few years.
I know some people think he's taken his eye off the ball with the USA team, but I think it's at least as much about an inability to connect with the kids.
The thing that Duke always did in the early and late 90's was finish strong -- they could close. In a game, in a tournament, and in living rooms. But lately its been collapses. In games, tournaments, and living rooms.
K's first generation of assistants are all gone, sent out as mostly failed acolytes to Missouri and Michigan and Stanford. At the risk of stating the obvious, maybe Duke could close better with a new flock of minions rather than Wojo and Collins.
I might be rambling. But I almost feel for K. But he's made his own coffin I guess. I won't enjoy it too much, because they'll still get us every now and then, but they are looking less and less competitive.
i love how everyone for the last year has said the if we get barnes and irving, it will be a return to dominance, but now that he went to unc, its not that big of a loss. it is a huge huge loss. k put more time and effort in him than anyone in recent memory, and still couldnt get a recruit to come aboard. unc will dominate this rivalry for time to come. hopefully this is the last time i get caught up in the big time recruit hoopla
Unless K starts showing some magic with the recruits we get... and we start winning national championships... roy and unx will go far ahead in national championships. Will K want to stick around to end his career being 'second best'... and being reminded of that sad fact whenever it matters?
So many people absolutely despise Duke, often for no reason, yet UNC keeps winning, and you would think that they would become hated along the lines of the Patriots or the Lakers or the Cowboys etc., but these kids keep going there. It just angers me when people loathe Duke for no reason, and it ends up hurting our recruits
God I hope singler stays, and schools him hard, I mean danny green on greg paulus hard.
Dukes rep is just too bad. Too many kids growing up hating Duke. In today's age with internet the hatred grows even worse. Its hard for kids to want to go here when their boys dog them for doing so. Duke will still get good talent. They just want be able to get whoever they want.
I think I have a new least favorite unc player once gintard leaves. Spin it however you want, he broke our hearts, his home team's hearts, and Kansas's hearts just to get in the spotlight. He loved it so much, that he let it drag on making it that much more painful for the schools he didn't pick. GTHC and GTHBarnes.
This. I'll give him credit though, he is the first recruit I know in this time and era to keep the mass public in suspense all the way to the bitter end.
i want wojo and collins outta here. why do people keep acting like they're bringing something to the table?!??!?! everyone defending them is content with LOSING "the right way"...whatever that means. in basketball (AAU) circles, those two elves are absolute jokes. and everyone on the TDD staff knows it.
Seriously why is it we keep getting out recruited by roy? theres just nothing we can do.
He has the best small forward, the best shooting guard, probably the best passing point guard, and what do we have? The third, maybe 4th best PG? Really?
I'm gonna say what no one wants to say -- Roy owns K on the court and off. If Duke cannot get a kid like Barnes, then it's clear we are not viewed as the program we once were. Until Duke gets back to looking like it did in 2001, I don't see us being a top tier team. Missing Barnes was HUGE, even bigger than us landing Kyrie. K recruited this kid by himself for a 1.5 and Duke was perceived by all as the leader. Roy comes and swoops him up in months. ****, a backcourt with Bullock and Barnes is gonna be nasty. Duke will not beat UNC without a whole lot of luck.
Plain and simple. Roy is the best recruiter on the planet. K isn't. K couldn't even get a "Duke" kid from Roy. ****, I know the mods and some posters are trying to keep their cool but we all know they feel the sting just as bad, if not worse than some here. Make no mistake this hurts on epic proportions. I'm cancelling all my premium subscriptions as we speak. Anyone see when Roy got the call from Harrison, how smug and arrogant he looked? Man I missed those looks from K, when he just knew he had the best program in America. This isn't the 90's, sadly UNC is the King and it isn't even close. Judging by Roy's recruiting it will stay that way until he retires or until K hits some of his Top non-guard talent, which at this point in time is unlikely. ****.
Funny thing about Manuel, Ginyard and Green -- they've all got national titles (granted Marcus was hurt, but he would've been a big contributor).
Dookies continue to be, well, Dookies.
I completely agree with you. As a huge Duke fan, but one without any sort of program connections, it's hard to admit that the product we have put on display the last several years has been very un-Duke like. Our style of play is hard to watch at times....listening to Coach K talk about not having the horses to win after the Nova beatdown last year was also painful.
I do think Coach K is "on the right path" right now with recruiting...but still, this really, really sucks. And to put some things in perspective, as much as it sucks for us, how do you think Coach K feels knowing how much time and energy he put into Barnes? I mean seriously...how long does it take to recover from that?
On a personal note...I am so mad at myself for buying into the hype I read on this board over the last several weeks. I rarely post, but often view...but I promise myself, I will never spend this amount of time again worrying or reading about a recruit. If they commit to Duke...then I will try to "get to know them" through the internet, but not until they commit.
Steve Wojciechowski is 5'11". That may pass as a big man coach at Pfeifer, but not at Duke. I'm not saying fire him, but bring in a real big man coach.
Let's face it a lot of us got a bit arrogant about "we are Duke bs" and it also got Coach K laying back a bit after the third title. You can stay in denial if you want but UNC is hot as hell right now. Our coach is going to coach the Olympic team again. He has a great radio show. He is a fabulous ambassador for the school. We love him. K is much brighter and much more talented at many more things than Roy. But Roy has tremendous focus on his one gift coaching and recruiting. Coach k seems to be more aware of this now. But it is very late in the game. Duke fans can rationalize anything like other fans do but make no mistake this Barnes kid is the type of recruit like a Deng that can place you in a final four with 7 other good players. You need this type recruit to get places like that. UNC has him we don't. I simply won't act like we are anywhere near level ground with them. We aren't. I am happy with the Duke program. We will make the tourney every year and be competitive in the ACC. But are we at UNC'S LEVEL? MORE IMPORTANTLY CAN WE EVER GET BACK THERE AGAIN?
again . . . Harrison's decision will affect how good Duke is next year and may or may not prove a significant factor in our run at a Championship . . . that is NOT the most devastating effect of losing Harrison to the Holes. the most significant consequence of his decision is that Williams has unequivocally demonstrated that he owns K, both in recruiting and when the teams square off. this is a HUGE hit for Duke and for K . . . and it will affect Duke recruiting for the next two or three years if not longer.
this one should be personal to coach k. UNC just started f'ing recruiting him like 3 months ago!
Fact: Collins was thought to be a bit of a jerk as a player. That was just his personality. And Wojo? Good grief. Why are our two top assistants basically Chet from Weird Science? WHY?!?!?! They are the most uncool dudes I can think of to be going out and repping the program on the summer circuit.
They need to take a job somewhere.They are holding this program hostage.
Coach K is done...yes he is a good coach, but he lacks the motivation and ethusiasm to recruit anybody worth a **** (top notch players, guys that win championships, hell we have 3 **** guards on the team which demonstrattes pitiful coaching) and focuses more on the Olympics and showing his face on American Express comercials. If Coach K doesn't care, I don't...simple as that. I will continue to ruit for Duke, but I'm not wasting every night watching them play on TV....no, I'm done with that.
Roy is like Mariano Rivera. He is a closer. I bet he could get K's wife to leave him if he were into that sort of thing.
The only black #1 ranked recruits that have stayed in school for three years since 2002 are Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington, Raymond Felton and Rashad McCants. The only ones that have stayed for two are Paul, Gay and Wright. These guys better go or an investigation should take place.
Just for the record Paulus, Singler, Padgett and Paul Davis are the only other #1 ranked recruits since that time that have stayed for 3+ years.
Another post from the Duke board (“The Devil’s Den”, AKA TDD), this from a rogue Carolina fan poster:
If you want my opinion, it's not smugness or arrogance that turns people off Duke. It's elitism.
Carolina fans are arrogant but they don't think their players are better people than the players on the other team.
It's exactly mocking things like "get your cheese up" that gives you guys this reputation. When Ty said that, many people here commented on how they were glad "people who say things like that" don't get recruited by Duke. Well guess what? Most of the top 25 players every year are "people who say things like that". I read the comments that said something to the effect that Barnes could have been a Battier, Singler, or Deng but chose to be a Stackhouse, Wallace, or Carter. Now, what exactly does that mean? It clearly isn't referring to player success since the latter are more succesful (so far) than the former. So it must be referring to the types of people they are or are assumed by the Duke fanbase to be. The Duke players are "Duke kids" and the UNC players are not just different, but less than "Duke kids" as people.
Kentucky, Kansas, and North Carolina fans think our programs are the best but we don't think we're a different class of people. And some of you guys quite often come off as thinking you're a different class of people.
I'll put it this way. You guys have the notion of a "Duke kid". There is no such notion among other fanbases. There is no such thing as Kansas kid, a UNC kid, or a Kentucky kid. It's a character assessment which inherently has the connotation that Duke kids are better people than the kids who go to other schools. That's beyond arrogant and smug, that's elitist. And people hate that.
Here are the things I think make dook players and their fans look bad:
1) Sense of entitlement - You see this on and off the court. dook players feel they deserve the calls. The fans feel they deserve the recruits, they deserve the wins, they deserve all the success in the world - mainly because they put together a few good runs in the early 2000s.
2) Delusion - roy has been in k's butt deep since he came to the ACC. dook is no longer a top tier program. "But we get 30 wins a season! We get 30 wins a season!" If you took away the name on the front of the jersey and just looked at end of season stats, you could switch the names "dook" and "valparaiso" and not know which is which. This point can really be proven on TDD. Just after the Harrison Barnes commitment, posters downplayed the importance and immediately launched into an orgy of bashing. At what cost? So other visitors (including recruits) can see just how quickly they're willing to tear down anyone that doesn't align with their thinking? The only rational thoughts on the board (like the one above)are often mocked. It's amazing. Many of the posters simply won't acknowledge dook's decline and UNC's rise to success. I can't quite figure out if it's an inferiority complex or that maybe putting blinders on won't force them to deal with the acknowledgement that the people they hate are owning them. It's so freaking strange.
3) Style of play - A system meant to manipulate. A system meant to focus on how to work the officials, not the opponent. dook wants the star recruits, yet their coaching staff implement a system that doesn't allow their stars to showcase their skills. No big man wants to be coached by a hobbit. The "teacher's pet" treatment at dook has become common knowledge, just like elliot williams rotting away on the bench. The most recent example was the blowout last night where Scheyer and Singler played 37+ minutes...in a blowout. It's the 3 ball, the once famous PG spot at dook, and the manipulation of the system and its rules in order to gain an advantage. It's not basketball for them anymore. How would Harrison Barnes succeed in a system not meant to work for him? Additionally, it's the flopping. (all teams do it, but dook makes it unbearable.) It's the elbows that never get called. It's the smug look on the faces of the players after they've hurt an opponent. So, not only does their system not work for most of America, but they have some serious character flaws that make them easy to hate. To summarize this point, the system is meant to benefit K and his win column. It does nothing for the actual players, unless they consider a good run in December and early departure in March to be an accomplishment
4) Elitism - Perhaps the biggest one. Most of the dook fans proudly boast of the academics, and often criticize players that committed elsewhere by citing that they weren't "dook material" anyways because they lack the intelligence. They don't see that their pride in this, and their blatant, ugly boasting turns people away, not draws them in. Additionally, no one buys what K is trying to sell anymore. They just don't. This leader of men, this man that can be seen praying before each game, yet 5 minutes later dropping some of the unholiest of words and berating his own players and the officials assigned to the game. Simply put, the dye in his hair has started to fade and no one buys that it's natural anymore.
The fork has been stuck in them. It's just a shame they can't acknowledge that it's there.